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	<title>Comments on: Latkes, here I come</title>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3847</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3847</guid>
		<description>BL, from a Jewish perspective, you&#039;re fine. We can keep &quot;idols&quot; in our houses as long as we don&#039;t worship them. (I learned this at the Jewish Museum in New York, and I wouldn&#039;t have the Ganesha in my house otherwise.) From a Buddhist perspective? It feels disrespectful to their religion to me, but I&#039;m not a Buddhist. Maybe they&#039;re more laid back about that kind of thing than I am. Gnatalby&#039;s original comment would seem to suggest so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BL, from a Jewish perspective, you&#8217;re fine. We can keep &#8220;idols&#8221; in our houses as long as we don&#8217;t worship them. (I learned this at the Jewish Museum in New York, and I wouldn&#8217;t have the Ganesha in my house otherwise.) From a Buddhist perspective? It feels disrespectful to their religion to me, but I&#8217;m not a Buddhist. Maybe they&#8217;re more laid back about that kind of thing than I am. Gnatalby&#8217;s original comment would seem to suggest so.</p>
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		<title>By: BL Barr</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3843</link>
		<dc:creator>BL Barr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3843</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting issue! I saw that article and video about Senator Hatch and it also made me vaguely uncomfortable/insulted and I wasn&#039;t sure exactly why. Thank you for articulating it.

I&#039;ve often thought about getting a statue of Buddha because Buddhism is cool and Buddha is kind of cute, but I&#039;m not a Buddhist and there&#039;s always that vague worry about keeping &#039;idols&#039; in the house! 

And I&#039;m also threatening to make latkes this year, after a very long time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting issue! I saw that article and video about Senator Hatch and it also made me vaguely uncomfortable/insulted and I wasn&#8217;t sure exactly why. Thank you for articulating it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve often thought about getting a statue of Buddha because Buddhism is cool and Buddha is kind of cute, but I&#8217;m not a Buddhist and there&#8217;s always that vague worry about keeping &#8216;idols&#8217; in the house! </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m also threatening to make latkes this year, after a very long time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Gurevitz</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3777</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Gurevitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3777</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with you on this one, but the foundation of my discomfort with Sen. Hatch&#039;s contribution was a little different.  Please take a look at my blog piece at
http://shmakoleinu-hearourvoices.blogspot.com I&#039;d love to hear your reactions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you on this one, but the foundation of my discomfort with Sen. Hatch&#8217;s contribution was a little different.  Please take a look at my blog piece at<br />
<a href="http://shmakoleinu-hearourvoices.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://shmakoleinu-hearourvoices.blogspot.com</a> I&#8217;d love to hear your reactions.</p>
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		<title>By: Shulamuth</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3760</link>
		<dc:creator>Shulamuth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3760</guid>
		<description>Oh, and the comment I was going to make after just the first paragraph:

I dislike the turning of Channukah into &quot;the Jewish Christmas&quot; quite a lot, but as a minor holiday it&#039;s a nice one.  Lights (lights always good at winter holidays!), music, games, good food -- what&#039;s not to like?  Purim is a minor historical holiday too and 
I generally go all out for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and the comment I was going to make after just the first paragraph:</p>
<p>I dislike the turning of Channukah into &#8220;the Jewish Christmas&#8221; quite a lot, but as a minor holiday it&#8217;s a nice one.  Lights (lights always good at winter holidays!), music, games, good food &#8212; what&#8217;s not to like?  Purim is a minor historical holiday too and<br />
I generally go all out for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Shulamuth</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3759</link>
		<dc:creator>Shulamuth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3759</guid>
		<description>What do we mean by &quot;mock&quot;?  I had what I would consider a not-a-real-Torah from the time I was confirmed and the synagogue gave it to me (3rd generation Reform here) until I gave it to my niece in honor of her being called to Torah.  It was a miniature scroll, and it was printed rather than scribally written.  I&#039;m not sure you could call any of the books titled Torah on my selves &quot;real&quot; Torahs, either; they are books that contain the words of the Torah (or an English translation of those words).  As I understand it, the English translation of the Koran I have is not the Koran, either, since by definition the Koran exists only in Arabic.  And while perhaps doctrinally less true, how &quot;real&quot; are the translations of various other religious works I have.  In fact, probably the only thing I have in English that I&#039;d assume was THE book is the Book of Mormon (and isn&#039;t that supposedly a translation as well?).  Not to let too much cultural insensitivity off the hook, but it&#039;s possible Hatch was trying to make clear that he didn&#039;t have an actual Torah in his office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do we mean by &#8220;mock&#8221;?  I had what I would consider a not-a-real-Torah from the time I was confirmed and the synagogue gave it to me (3rd generation Reform here) until I gave it to my niece in honor of her being called to Torah.  It was a miniature scroll, and it was printed rather than scribally written.  I&#8217;m not sure you could call any of the books titled Torah on my selves &#8220;real&#8221; Torahs, either; they are books that contain the words of the Torah (or an English translation of those words).  As I understand it, the English translation of the Koran I have is not the Koran, either, since by definition the Koran exists only in Arabic.  And while perhaps doctrinally less true, how &#8220;real&#8221; are the translations of various other religious works I have.  In fact, probably the only thing I have in English that I&#8217;d assume was THE book is the Book of Mormon (and isn&#8217;t that supposedly a translation as well?).  Not to let too much cultural insensitivity off the hook, but it&#8217;s possible Hatch was trying to make clear that he didn&#8217;t have an actual Torah in his office.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3757</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3757</guid>
		<description>JoGeek, INTERESTING! Thank you for sharing that. Did you see in the news a month or so ago where several (white) people died doing a &quot;sweat lodge&quot;?

Ilyse &amp; Phira, yes, it was Paul. And a big part of why the Jewish laws (which Jesus was clear should be followed) got abandoned, as far as I&#039;ve learned, was because of circumcision. Good luck attracting a lot of adult converts to your religion if that&#039;s step one! But if you say circumcision isn&#039;t necessary, then you have to throw out the rest of it, too, because circumcision is the first and most important sign of the covenant. 

Rebecca, intriguing point about the Darwin fish. I&#039;ve always liked them, but I see them as a political protest against the kind of Christians who want to suppress science. Although, now that I think more about it, it does lump all Christians into one, er, fishbowl, as it were, which is unfair and probably doesn&#039;t help the cause. But still, in a way, desecrating or destroying a symbol is more respectful than appropriating it or kitsching it up. It&#039;s like flag etiquette--it is actually honoring the meaning of an American flag more to burn it in protest than to make a BIKINI out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoGeek, INTERESTING! Thank you for sharing that. Did you see in the news a month or so ago where several (white) people died doing a &#8220;sweat lodge&#8221;?</p>
<p>Ilyse &#038; Phira, yes, it was Paul. And a big part of why the Jewish laws (which Jesus was clear should be followed) got abandoned, as far as I&#8217;ve learned, was because of circumcision. Good luck attracting a lot of adult converts to your religion if that&#8217;s step one! But if you say circumcision isn&#8217;t necessary, then you have to throw out the rest of it, too, because circumcision is the first and most important sign of the covenant. </p>
<p>Rebecca, intriguing point about the Darwin fish. I&#8217;ve always liked them, but I see them as a political protest against the kind of Christians who want to suppress science. Although, now that I think more about it, it does lump all Christians into one, er, fishbowl, as it were, which is unfair and probably doesn&#8217;t help the cause. But still, in a way, desecrating or destroying a symbol is more respectful than appropriating it or kitsching it up. It&#8217;s like flag etiquette&#8211;it is actually honoring the meaning of an American flag more to burn it in protest than to make a BIKINI out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: JoGeek</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3754</link>
		<dc:creator>JoGeek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3754</guid>
		<description>Ah..the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tisworld.com/fun_hula.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; great trend &lt;/a&gt; of &lt;a&gt; religious appropriation &lt;/a&gt; seems to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lakotawritings.com/declaration_of_war.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; live on... &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah..the <a href="http://www.tisworld.com/fun_hula.html" rel="nofollow"> great trend </a> of <a> religious appropriation </a> seems to <a href="http://www.lakotawritings.com/declaration_of_war.htm" rel="nofollow"> live on&#8230; </a></p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3751</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3751</guid>
		<description>DNH, they&#039;re going to turn out well, because I&#039;m going to my in-laws tomorrow night. My father-in-law is the Great Potato Patriarch, and after a tutorial in his latke technique, there is no way mine can fail to be anything but superb! But yes, I will try to provide visual if not gustatory evidence of my attempts to my readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DNH, they&#8217;re going to turn out well, because I&#8217;m going to my in-laws tomorrow night. My father-in-law is the Great Potato Patriarch, and after a tutorial in his latke technique, there is no way mine can fail to be anything but superb! But yes, I will try to provide visual if not gustatory evidence of my attempts to my readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave's not here!</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3749</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave's not here!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3749</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re going to expect a report on how the latkes turned out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re going to expect a report on how the latkes turned out.</p>
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		<title>By: Phira</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3747</link>
		<dc:creator>Phira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3747</guid>
		<description>I think that what bothers me about Senator Hatch&#039;s attitudes towards these Jewish symbols (and towards Chanukah) is that they&#039;re not done with real respect.  Chanukah isn&#039;t even a major holiday, as many of us know (and if you didn&#039;t before, now you do, and knowledge is power, etc.).

Why keep a mock Torah?  Why is it a MOCK Torah?  What is he even doing with it?  Is he studying it?  Or does he have it as a token?  I don&#039;t understand it.

I don&#039;t think that this person really has what I would consider respect for Judaism.  

Ilyse, it was Paul, if I remember correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that what bothers me about Senator Hatch&#8217;s attitudes towards these Jewish symbols (and towards Chanukah) is that they&#8217;re not done with real respect.  Chanukah isn&#8217;t even a major holiday, as many of us know (and if you didn&#8217;t before, now you do, and knowledge is power, etc.).</p>
<p>Why keep a mock Torah?  Why is it a MOCK Torah?  What is he even doing with it?  Is he studying it?  Or does he have it as a token?  I don&#8217;t understand it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that this person really has what I would consider respect for Judaism.  </p>
<p>Ilyse, it was Paul, if I remember correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilyse</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3733</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilyse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3733</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m no expert, but from what I&#039;ve read, it was the Apostle Paul who broke with Judaic traditions and cut the ties between Judaism and Christianity esp. regarding Shabbat and the Jewish holidays and rituals. Btw, I always chuckle when yoga teachers do the whole Namaste thing:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no expert, but from what I&#8217;ve read, it was the Apostle Paul who broke with Judaic traditions and cut the ties between Judaism and Christianity esp. regarding Shabbat and the Jewish holidays and rituals. Btw, I always chuckle when yoga teachers do the whole Namaste thing:)</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3732</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3732</guid>
		<description>I think something in a similar vein is taking the Christian fish symbol and putting &quot;Darwin&quot; in it, etc.  I am not a Christian, but I could see how taking this religious symbol and turning it into something else could be offensive (but maybe that&#039;s the point?).

And I know that this is different than what Sen. Hatch is doing; something about it seems similar to me, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think something in a similar vein is taking the Christian fish symbol and putting &#8220;Darwin&#8221; in it, etc.  I am not a Christian, but I could see how taking this religious symbol and turning it into something else could be offensive (but maybe that&#8217;s the point?).</p>
<p>And I know that this is different than what Sen. Hatch is doing; something about it seems similar to me, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3730</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3730</guid>
		<description>Gnatalby, I wouldn&#039;t go to a yoga class like that, and the fact that so many of them *are* like that is part of why I don&#039;t go to yoga classes any more. It&#039;s just too weird to walk into a studio and not know if you&#039;re going to gym class or a religious service! Some folks, btw, are debating this from a UU perspective over at PeaceBang&#039;s: 
http://beautytipsforministers.com/2009/12/09/miss-conduct-tears-it-up/

Also, you&#039;ll note that I never said you have to color within the lines of your own religion exclusively. I think it&#039;s fine that Senator Hatch wrote a Hanukkah song. I think it&#039;s *weird*, but I like weird. And hey, if he were in town and wanted to come to Torah study with me, what the heck, I&#039;d take him. But making fake versions of another religion&#039;s most holy object to decorate your office and wearing, on your person, the symbol of another religion--nope. Disrespectful. 

MaryAnne, I too am fascinated by the first two centuries of the Common Era, and the philosophy and politics of how Christianity became a religion separate from the Jewishness of the man Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gnatalby, I wouldn&#8217;t go to a yoga class like that, and the fact that so many of them *are* like that is part of why I don&#8217;t go to yoga classes any more. It&#8217;s just too weird to walk into a studio and not know if you&#8217;re going to gym class or a religious service! Some folks, btw, are debating this from a UU perspective over at PeaceBang&#8217;s:<br />
<a href="http://beautytipsforministers.com/2009/12/09/miss-conduct-tears-it-up/" rel="nofollow">http://beautytipsforministers.com/2009/12/09/miss-conduct-tears-it-up/</a></p>
<p>Also, you&#8217;ll note that I never said you have to color within the lines of your own religion exclusively. I think it&#8217;s fine that Senator Hatch wrote a Hanukkah song. I think it&#8217;s *weird*, but I like weird. And hey, if he were in town and wanted to come to Torah study with me, what the heck, I&#8217;d take him. But making fake versions of another religion&#8217;s most holy object to decorate your office and wearing, on your person, the symbol of another religion&#8211;nope. Disrespectful. </p>
<p>MaryAnne, I too am fascinated by the first two centuries of the Common Era, and the philosophy and politics of how Christianity became a religion separate from the Jewishness of the man Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: MaryAnne</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3727</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3727</guid>
		<description>As a Christian, a Catholic, I have always wondered why Christians don&#039;t celebrate the Jewish holidays.  Jesus was a Jew, he celebrated them.  I wonder at what point Christians stopped the Jewish traditions and why?  

That being said (or asked), I get Robin&#039;s issue with Senator Hatch.  I can relate it to my distaste when I see Rosary Beads used as jewelry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Christian, a Catholic, I have always wondered why Christians don&#8217;t celebrate the Jewish holidays.  Jesus was a Jew, he celebrated them.  I wonder at what point Christians stopped the Jewish traditions and why?  </p>
<p>That being said (or asked), I get Robin&#8217;s issue with Senator Hatch.  I can relate it to my distaste when I see Rosary Beads used as jewelry.</p>
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		<title>By: Gnatalby</title>
		<link>http://robinabrahams.com/2009/12/09/latkes-here-i-come/comment-page-1/#comment-3726</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnatalby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robinabrahams.com/?p=2215#comment-3726</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a difference between coincidentally stretching while breathing and sitting down in your yoga class, and starting with an invocation is awkward white people sanskrit, which is definitely what&#039;s happened at the last two yoga studios I&#039;ve been to.

I think we might just disagree on this point, but I think that the cultural blending bell can&#039;t really be unrung at this point, even if some expressions of it are tackier than others. I mean, he&#039;s not trying to deceive people that he is Jewish.

But... I am also a UU and am getting an MA studying religion, so I have a quite a collection of stuff from other cultures, some of which was gifted to me, and some of which I got for myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a difference between coincidentally stretching while breathing and sitting down in your yoga class, and starting with an invocation is awkward white people sanskrit, which is definitely what&#8217;s happened at the last two yoga studios I&#8217;ve been to.</p>
<p>I think we might just disagree on this point, but I think that the cultural blending bell can&#8217;t really be unrung at this point, even if some expressions of it are tackier than others. I mean, he&#8217;s not trying to deceive people that he is Jewish.</p>
<p>But&#8230; I am also a UU and am getting an MA studying religion, so I have a quite a collection of stuff from other cultures, some of which was gifted to me, and some of which I got for myself.</p>
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