Today’s column
April 18th, 2010
is online here.
Regarding the first question, I find the balance between being polite, and refusing to allow one’s self to be a victim, to be a fascinating yin-yang to think about. I plan to do a Wednesday Conversation about it on the boston.com blog sooner or later, but if any of you want to share your thoughts on the subject now, I’d love to hear them.
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The LW says, “No matter how much notice we give, they say, ‘We have to see what else is going on that day.’” I believe that in some cultures this is polite-speak for “No, we will not be coming.”
But maybe LW should try giving *less* notice, say three to five days, to see what happens before she gives up entirely.
I think the LW can be polite by continuing to invite them, and can stop being a victim by changing her expectations to more closely match reality. It’s not “polite” to get passive-aggressive in response to other people’s actions, and it’s certainly within the bounds of etiquette to protect yourself and maintain reasonable boundaries. Being polite doesn’t mean being a doormat.
For myself, I often try to ask myself “Is this usually-polite action going to cause me resentment?” If the answer is yes, then maybe I should leave it alone. With this LW, it sounds like she may be at a place where even *issuing* the invitation is causing her resentment, which may be a sign she should back off a bit (as you noted in your response).
I’d also bet that her expectations for interactions with extended family/in-laws are very different than theirs (and maybe her husband’s), or she may even be in a mindset where she’s making assumptions about their assumptions about what those interactions should be like, and allowing either her assumptions or her assumptions about their assumptions to dictate her behavior. I think if that sort of thing is a pattern in anyone’s life, it’s worth just flat-out asking the other people what their desires or needs are, and figuring out a way to meet their actual needs rather than banging your head into the wall trying (unsuccessfully) to meet the needs you assume they have. Or if the LW is actually trying to meet her own needs — e.g., she wants extended family members at holidays — then she should make those needs known, rather than just continuing to issue invitations and assuming the family understands her underlying desire.
Maybe she could let her husband do the inviting for his family?
If they respond better and RSVP and come, great. If they don’t, at least she doesn’t have to deal with it. If he never gets around to issuing the invitation to them, it’s not her fault.
In general, though, I agree with tailoring your entertaining to what you know you can expect from people. Especially with family, since you often can’t stop inviting them as you might if they were an acquaintance or friend.
I would have suggested what TJ said — she needs to disengage from her husband’s family. Obviously she wants them to be part of her children’s lives, but they are his family. He can manage that relationship, which should take some of the bitterness out if it for her.
I agree with all your suggestions. I was thinking, though, in a broader context about the polite v. victim thing. How do we respond when someone is rude without returning rudeness for rudeness? How do we take the high road without being a doormat? (Although “Doormat on the High Road” would be an *excellent* title for a book or album.)
Second book, Robin? I would be fascinated to read more about that dichotomy — especially with a gendered perspective. Women in mainstream US society are taught to be polite to such a degree that some of them end up victims of abuse. Wouldn’t want to be rude to that guy in the bar who is not taking your hints of disinterest, after all.
This is an interesting dichotomy and a really hard one for me because I have that unrealistic desire to please everybody that so many people have.
One thing I’ve discovered about myself is that if I bury things in the name of being polite, resentment is likely to build until I blow up like a complete psycho jerk. Remembering that makes it easier to have difficult conversations sooner rather than later.
Reminding myself that you can be assertive without being aggressive is another helpful thing. That it’s okay to say “Ow, quit it!” when someone’s poking you (physically or emotionally) and that that doesn’t equate to poking them back.
occhiblu has good points about clearly communicating your own needs and asking about other people’s, rather than assuming what theirs are or assuming they understand yours.
In the specific situation, it might be worth letting the husband’s family know that last-minute cancellations and non-existent RSVPs make it hard for her to plan anything. They seem like a much more spontaneous bunch, and the planning she’s doing might not occur to them. (It probably *should,* but I’m trying to give benefit of the doubt. :) )
Also, if she’s got a lot of leftover prime rib, you know what tastes really, really good for breakfast? Prime rib hash and eggs.
On “the balance between being polite, and refusing to allow one’s self to be a victim,” I found myself thinking about punishment.
In martial arts class, we’ve talked some about the difference between defending yourself, and meting out punishment. As a result, I’m paying attention to how reflexively I gravitate to thoughts of punishing. For example, it feels unnatural to me to drive defensively without punishing aggressive drivers with “the bird.” (I restrain myself, but my reflex is to punish.)
For me, then, the challenge when treated rudely would be to protect myself without also organizing my plans around punishing the offender in future dealings.
I’m with KellyK in worrying that getting angry will turn me into the incredible hulk; in the event, it hardly ever happens because I would burst into tears first.
It’s closely connected to the advice (youngest) kids get, “Just ignore the teasing–they just want to get a rise out of you.”
The thought that if I do flash back with real anger, having ‘just ignored it’ for a little too long, I’ll then be laughed at for the anger, is, itself, infuriating.
What to do?
Yes, Robin, it’s important to discuss!
Brooke, I like your distinction between protecting yourself and punishing the other person. I think that’s a really good way of looking at it.
Carolyn, I always hated the “Just ignore it” advice as a kid, because that only made it a challenge for kids who picked on me. And pretending not to care about things that bug me is something I still don’t do well, let alone at age eight or whatever.
I wonder if there’s something in that protection instead of retaliation idea that kids being picked on can use, though I’m not quite sure how that would play out.
Robin, you’ve mentioned before how Pam on The Office tells Michael exactly what behavior she wants him to stop doing (please don’t throw food at me, or something like that). So I think that can be part of being polite while not being a doormat. And it speaks directly to the LW telling her in-laws exactly what she wants from them. You also had a column about ineffective strategies, and I think passive-aggressive strategies where the other person is not picking up on your subtle hints or sarcasm can make you feel more like a doormat too. I like the advice to let the husband deal with his relatives.
I used Pam’s strategy (I can’t believe I learned to DO something from The Office as opposed to learning what NOT to do from The Office) when I had to tell a man in a zine workshop to please stop touching me. He kept putting his hand on my shoulder blade, even when I was leaning as far away as possible. As soon as I told him to stop, he apologized in that defensive way where he put the blame back on me for even mentioning it. That little episode cast a bit of a pall, to say the least. I felt like an ogre at first, but then we all got back to work and had fun, and one of the women in the workshop later told me privately that she was glad I finally said something. So although it was hard to put myself in a position of feeling like I was the bad guy for speaking out, I felt good about being a possible role model for the other (much younger) women in the room.
diane, you were totally reasonable. One of my pet peeves is when people ignore others’ boundaries or do something offensive, then act like you’re a jerk for bringing it up. Good for you for sticking up for your personal space!
KellyK, agreed; that’s akin to the “Can’t You Take a Joke” dynamic. Maybe I can, maybe I can’t but the real question is ‘will I?’, and the answer to that is ‘No.’
At least, that’s where I’m trying to get to.
I work with kids, and we’ve been working recently on what to say when someone is bothering you (the default had become running to the playground supervisors, which wasn’t working for a variety of reasons). I asked the kids what they thought they should do if someone said or did something that made them uncomfortable, and every answer was basically ignore it, walk away, don’t play with them. Which, clearly, wasn’t working.
So I told them they could say, “I don’t like it when you do/say that. Please stop.” and they were not fans of this at all! They said they wanted to be polite, and this clearly felt impolite to them.
Like I said, we’re working on it, but the culture of “just ignore it” runs pretty deep. Even among ten-year-olds!
Great example, TJ, because the space to walk away in is not infinite; there’s not another empty playground to go to if this one is ruled by aggressive kids.
(I’d been thinking of in-laws, or roommates, which are also mostly closed systems, but it starts with the playground, doesn’t it?!)
I agree that the kids are concerned with politeness, but maybe also with power: what if they say what you suggest, and the response is “You can’t make me.”?
Carolyn, I like your way of framing all those things as closed systems. I hadn’t really thought of those as similar, but now that you say that I think that they are.
For sure power is also an issue (I think it is in many kinds of interactions between people.). I’ve left the kids the option of getting an adult if the other person doesn’t stop the teasing/harassment/unwanted advances/whatever, so that’s available to them. I’m just trying to give them other options than getting an adult or giving in to a bully. I think it’s important that they learn to advocate for themselves, but I don’t want them to feel abandoned.
TJ, I think that’s a good balance. It’s really important for kids to get the tools to deal with interpersonal problems on their own, but at the same time, teachers have a responsibility not to allow bullying to continue when they see it or when a kid brings it to their attention.
I wonder if part of the issue is that we unrealistically expect that if we are polite, folks will be polite to us. The world doesn’t work that way. You can be the kindest, most considerate and most courteous person in the world, and rude things will still happen to you. Then, if the rude thing inspires you to respond more directly or forcefully than you normally do when rude things happen, there’s a chance the person will respond rudely yet again (as in diane’s example above), which can make you feel victimized twice. Everyone’s had that experience, so part of our often unconscious calculation in responding to rudeness is whether we risk doing something that will just make matters worse.
So here’s my challenge, especially to women: What does making things “worse” really look like? Can we be thicker skinned and still be safe? Diane had a moment of discomfort when she told the guy to stop touching her and he responded badly, but then it was over — both the touching and the bad response. Most importantly, other women were relieved that she had spoken up.
I won’t fight with anyone in traffic, no matter what happens, but I will speak up in situations where other folks would never dream of rocking the boat. In my experience, speaking up has never sunk the boat and the worst that has happened is that I’m not close to extended family members who are racist, sexist, and/or homophobic. I’m willing to live with that, although I know some people aren’t.